Coaching Call: Why Create?

[00:00:00] Laura: This is Nate. I'm Laura. We're the creators of shelter in place. And also obviously there's dissemble labs and the Kasama collective, which is our live version of this. And we really, we started with this module, as I said, in the audio tutorial, if you've heard that, this week, because we realized that this question.

[00:00:19] Really has directed everything that we've done from day one, when it was just me thinking that I was going to be doing this little podcast project for a couple of weeks. But even before that, it was the question that I think I've been wrestling with as a creative and, and Nate in different ways in his career as well.

[00:00:36] So we wanna, we wanna start with Josh to Joshua's responses here and thank you Joshua for submitting those. But I wonder if before we do that, if we can even just refresh for people to remind people of the questions that we ask them to these calls, and maybe we'll just have everybody meet themselves for now.

[00:00:54] And then when, when it comes time for us to hear from you in different ways, we can have you unmute [00:01:00] unmute yourselves, but do you have those questions pulled up to us right now? Okay. So I'm going to pull that up right now and. 

[00:01:09] Nate: While you're while you're doing that, I guess I can just we just want to give quick shout outs to everyone who put comments on slack or emailed us.

[00:01:18] So Joshua also joining us from New York state. He and his wife have a podcast about movies. They have a really natural rapport. Laura, I think your show did a great thing, which was making somebody want to watch the movie, even though the movie itself may have been terrible. 

[00:01:35] Laura: So even though you said it was terrible, I was still like, I kind of want to based on their very funny band or here, I kind of want to actually I haven't yet, but I'm, I'm very intrigued.

[00:01:48] Okay. So we are talking about why create and sorry. 

[00:01:58] Nate: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, [00:02:00] and also I think we should note Joshua also uses D script, which we will get into later on. But that is an invaluable part of our recording editing process. So you're already on top of that. I think, you know, we can just jump into Joshua's answers, which I've noted here, you know, so Joshua, you said I create partly because I want to put things into the world that I want to see.

[00:02:22] And partly because it gets me excited. And also because sometimes I think I can't make a living and be happy if I don't and, you know, we resonate with all three of those things and I think, you know putting things into the world that you want to see, it's the artistic equivalent. Buying from the stores that you want to have in your neighborhood.

[00:02:43] And so, you know, I just, I really appreciate you saying that. And then I, he, his, his second comment was, you know, his wife and he are planning a future podcast about relationships and regarding, you know, obstacles and preconceived notions that stand in people's way from being the [00:03:00]person that they should be with.

[00:03:01] And I think we actually did an episode almost exactly a year ago called not the only one, which was kind of holding up the, our cultural obsession with romantic love and finding the one, you know, kind of up to the light. So that may be, that may be of interest to you. That was a really fun episode to work on.

[00:03:20] And finally you know, Josh also noted that he and his wife were more excited than ever about our future podcast because of this class. I'm so glad. To hear you say that, I think this'll be the fourth time. We will go through this curriculum in some iteration and, you know, each time it gives us fresh energy and inspiration for, you know, our kind of current version of our mission statement, which is re-imagining life through creativity and community.

[00:03:47] And so we're excited to be inspired by each of your creativity and for us all to create a virtual community together. Yeah. And I 

[00:03:56] Laura: have those questions pulled up now which the questions that we just [00:04:00] heard Joshua his answers from, or why do you create what's the elevator pitch for your future podcasts and has your vision for this podcast evolved based on the suites module?

[00:04:10] So one of the things I want to encourage all of you, and as you're going through these things, even if you don't get to all of the exercises or all of the elements of the module every week, Number one, it's fine. You know, like you can always come back and do those things later. We've designed it that way.

[00:04:27] But number shoe, we actually hope that this material that we're giving you will be useful, not just the first time going through it, but that it will be something that you can come back to again and again. And I know for myself, the things that have come into this course, I mean, I I've often said about it, but it's the course I wish I had when I was starting out in podcasting.

[00:04:47] And in many ways it's the course that I still need as a podcaster because these tools, these different ways of thinking about things, they're things that I come back to again and again and again, and really helped me to kind [00:05:00] of stay on course to make sure that my reasons for creating are actually lining up with the work that I'm doing.

[00:05:08] So Joshua, we want to. Chat a little more about your work and hear from you as you're creating, as you're thinking about creating this relationships podcast, as you're doing your current work with your podcasts, it's out there, you know, what how does your approach in creating your work right now?

[00:05:28] You know, why, why do you think that you want to put something new out there versus just keeping on with the one that you have right now? And will you do both at the same time, I'm curious about your reasons about creating this work and if you kind of envision those things being parallel or separate projects that maybe you'll finish one up and go onto the next one.

[00:05:48] Joshua: Basically the the love podcast idea started when we were getting engaged and my wife wanted to, I wanted everybody to give us advice. [00:06:00] Cause we're both 40 something can marriage for the first time when makes sure we're doing it right. You know And and then we realized that since we reconnected after 15 years, so we realized there was a reason that we didn't get together 15 years ago because we had preconceived notions of what she was like, oh, why didn't you ask me out?

[00:06:17] You must not have liked me and vice versa and these other things. And so there's always obstacles holding people back from showing people for whatever reason or going after what they want. So that's so that's our idea. And so on our honeymoon, we actually interviewed a couple in Hawaii. And instead of this, like the straightforward interview kind of thing, like, like I currently have with our movie or few podcasts, the ones who make it more of a narrative style and do like a series out of it.

[00:06:45] And, and out of that was because some I I'm full-time job searching right now for a story that's way too long to get into, but I, Kate but yeah, I was hoping this would propel me into finding work because all the advice I'm getting says, make [00:07:00] your own thing. That's seems to be all the advice I'm getting a, how to get into the podcast world.

[00:07:04] Full-time 

[00:07:06] Laura: yeah. And I think we would both say that there's no better way to learn than to make your own thing. And part of that. You know, you make mistakes and you learn how to adjust and do it differently. And you become, hopefully if you continue learning, you know, better at what you're doing and making better decisions going forward.

[00:07:24] Hello, everyone that just joined. It's not sure what was going on there. We had a couple of us that got on no problem, and then others who didn't. So we will, we will continue to make sure the technology works for us, but thank you so much for J Joshua for letting us know that slack messages were popping up here.

[00:07:41] We just heard from Joshua a bit about why he's creating and just for those of you who have just joined the CR the three questions that we posed to all of you this week is why do you create what's the elevator pitch for your future podcasts and has your vision for your podcast evolved based on this [00:08:00] week's month?

[00:08:00] Joel, do you want to jump in on that before I go on 

[00:08:05] Joshua: Jeff on and say Stevie has an amazing background here. Just want to say that. 

[00:08:10] Laura: I love your blue wall. And that microphone. 

[00:08:14] Stevie: Oh, thank you. My wife was not an initial fan of the blue wall, but now she actually she's seen it and she's a fan. 

[00:08:20] Laura: So thank you.

[00:08:21] I appreciate, I appreciate that because it gives me the, I told you so which I, like, I kind of feel like we, our Wells are white and this little ride I remember right now we have a background, but for the sound, but I kind of think maybe that's the color we need. I've been thinking about it for a long time.

[00:08:36] Nate: So yeah, Peter and Kate, what we've been doing is just going through quickly discussing different comments that people emailed or, or shared on slack. And then also just wanting to recognize interview joining us since, so Peter welcome from Munich, Germany, where it's 9:00 PM on a Friday. Great to have you here.

[00:08:57] Nice to be here. [00:09:00] Yes. And you maybe remember from Donald duck cartoons growing up, how Scrooge McDuck had his first dollar that he ever made framed on the wall? I have a screenshot. Of Peter's order. Peter is our first Kasama labs customer ever special place in my heart. And Peter's show is about like a huge issue that will affect us all which is cleaning up the oceans and rivers.

[00:09:28] And you put something in your intro that I felt was really worth discussing with the group. He said, I think everybody has a limit of how much bad news about the environment they can absorb. So the podcast really talks about progress rather than problems. And, you know, we couldn't agree more. I think you're, you're touching on one of the perennial challenges for change oriented creative work is how do you inform and interest people and motivate them to action, but without making them feel depressed [00:10:00] or overwhelmed and I think.

[00:10:02] We would all acknowledge that the past two years, I don't even want to use the word pandemic has made, you know, people's bad news, fatigue, even worse. And so I think it's really smart that you're focusing on progress and on people who are making a difference. 

[00:10:18] Laura: And if I can just jump in there, I mean, I think one of the things you'll hear us talk about a lot in this course is we're not advocating shying away from the sometimes hard realities of life.

[00:10:31] I mean, I think that is part of showing up as a human being in this world is saying, yeah, things are not as they should be. But figuring out as a podcast or figuring out through these stories that we're telling, how do we engage people who may have, you know, compassion, fatigue, maybe, you know, maybe they're just exhausted and they don't want to hear more bad news.

[00:10:52] And we want to lean toward that hope while also holding the difficulties of life. That's something that we constantly are thinking about with our [00:11:00] work at shelter in place. And so as soon as next week's module, where we talk about story and what makes a great story, that's, that's what you all have coming on Monday.

[00:11:11] We're thinking a lot about, okay. If the story is actually something that's challenging to talk about, you know, sometimes it's just pure fun and joy, and those are wonderful fun stories to do, but sometimes it's more serious sometimes, you know, we're talking about systemic racism or we're talking about, you know, breakdowns in the education system or climate change or whatever that may be, that your story is that you're focusing on.

[00:11:34] And, you know, I think with a movie you have, if somebody sits down for a movie and they know that it's going to be a heavy movie, they've kind of already signed up for that. And they're like, okay, well, here we go. You know, you gear up for it with the podcast. Oftentimes you just have a couple maybe seconds or at most minutes for somebody to decide if they're going to turn it off or, you know, listen to something else.

[00:11:55] And so thinking about how do you pull people into that story and. [00:12:00] Hold the difficulty with the hope and, and, you know, not, not be flippant about it, but to be able to engage them in that story, that hopefully will change their perspective a little bit, or, you know, give them information that they're wanting and needing.

[00:12:14] And so I think that, you know, the work you're doing with pristine ocean, it's really exciting. And I just want to encourage you in that to like keep pushing toward that, even though I know it is challenging when you have a hard topic that you're dealing with. 

[00:12:29] Nate: Yeah. Thanks Laura. My, my one my one suggestion or actually two quick suggestions first to acknowledge that writing the short description of your.

[00:12:42] Is extremely challenging. You know, even for somebody like me, background is advertising, we've written our show description probably at least six times. So right now I'm going to read what Peter had. The pristine ocean podcast talks to [00:13:00] people, tackling the problem with plastic litter in the ocean and other waterways.

[00:13:05] So that tells you what the show's about. Here's a great, it's an important topic. Hopefully something that we all care about now in advertising, they make this important distinction between features and benefits. A feature is this is a podcast about ocean cleanup. A benefit might be, this is a podcast showing us that there's hope for a better world.

[00:13:35] Yeah. So what I would suggest here, I think is your, your current one is almost like a, like a strategy statement or a kind of factual description, but maybe I think what, what might be helpful to pull people in is to try to touch on either the practical or emotional payoffs that a listener will [00:14:00] get from your show, because maybe it is chances to donate or volunteer to some of these wonderful organizations that you've featured, or is it, you know, inspirational leaders who are, you know, doing something that I, as a listener would like to emulate in my own life, or is it simply the feeling of hope on a hard day?

[00:14:25] Right. So I think you could, you could certainly riff on. Try and number versions, you know, share them in our slack channel. But I think that would be my, that would be my first suggestion because it's like, it's a great show, but yeah. How do you get people to feel that heart of it? Right. And this is something you are passionate about.

[00:14:44] We want us to be passionate about my second. Yeah. 

[00:14:47] Laura: Sorry. Can I just jump in there? So on that same note something that I wanted to make you aware of Peter is there is a podcast called inherited that is [00:15:00] all about the youth climate change movement and it's Georgia, right. Is one of the creators of that show.

[00:15:05] We actually had her on our show in season two, I think it was maybe last October, October of 2020. And she talks about, I mean, in that episode, it was very much exactly what you're saying. I mean, not ocean specific, but more bigger climate change. And it's, I think that it's a limited run series. I want to say it's four episodes that they did of their show, which is called inherited.

[00:15:31] But I think they did a really nice job of, again, holding the sh the difficulty of this topic with the hope and that there are these really wonderful things happening that are truly inspiring. And I know for me, you know, it was just four episodes, but I listened to them very quickly and really, really thoroughly enjoy them.

[00:15:50] It's a narrative podcast. So that might be one to just check out is like, this is what other people, you know, in the creative space are doing with this. [00:16:00] And it might be, you know, a good thing to even reach out to Georgia and say like, Hey, I'm listening to your show. Let's do a promo swap. So thinking about those things down the line as well.

[00:16:10] So that's great. Thank you. 

[00:16:11] Nate: Yeah, of course. My second, you know, observation for you, Peter, like I think any of us who have been in the audio podcasting space have been aware of the Joe Rogan, misinformation, controversy, and. I think, you know, thinking about our responsibility as creators who are putting things out into the world.

[00:16:35] I think we always include links in our show notes because I think that it is a mark of responsible journalism to hold yourself accountable and to say to your listeners, you know, maybe they'll click on the links. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't, but you're saying here, you can check my sources. You can check my work.

[00:16:58] And then I think it's, [00:17:00] it's a sign of good faith that you are putting in these links. So if people want to verify, you know, some statistic of, you know, oh, here's how bad the pollution problem is. Here's how much this thing will cost. Or, and yeah, I know it's, it's a little more work. I think, you know, there's a reason like Joe Rogan show, he doesn't do that because I think that.

[00:17:22] No, maybe that's not a priority, but I think it would be something worth considering for you where a lot of your, a lot of your material will be sort of factual information. And especially as Laura was saying earlier, depending on the political orientation or the beliefs of your listeners, they may be more inclined to believe you, or maybe they are, maybe they're skeptical and showing those sources may help them, you know, be more confident in the, you know, the claims that you present.

[00:17:53] So that'd be my other note 

[00:17:55] Peter: totally on board with that. I thought I had the links in the show notes. 

[00:17:59] Nate: [00:18:00] Oh, you may, you may have, I just clicked on the most recent one. So pardon me if you've already on. 

[00:18:06] Laura: Also, I know you're probably all aware of this, but different apps will show your links or not. So some apps, if you have them embedded in there, it'll show up just like right in the description of the episode and others, they won't do any links.

[00:18:21] Like I think it's, I can't, I know apple podcasts keeps changing it, but I think apple podcasts, if you were looking on there, you probably wouldn't have seen them on there, but it may, you know, if you look on say Spotify or something, I think quite do I 

[00:18:32] Nate: click on the link? So, whatever, whatever you had in slack, Peter was when I clicked, I 

[00:18:39] Laura: think it's something to be aware of though, that your show, even if you do have links and that's great that you do, by the way, I mean, that's fantastic.

[00:18:46] We have learned to always put complete show notes, you know, complete show notes at shelter in place podcasts or right. Because depending on what app people are receiving it, and it's, you know, not all apps are created [00:19:00] exactly the same in terms of the user experience. So just being aware of K some of them might chop you off.

[00:19:05] Some of them might only have a certain character limit. Some of them let it go. As long as you want. It's something that we found, even in the couple of years we've been doing this, it changes over time. It changes by the app. And sometimes it actually changes based on who your host is. So for a little while, we were working with a company called and so everything went through them.

[00:19:26] And so we only had actually like a little bit of control over what was in those descriptions. Now we're doing it ourselves. So that's, you know, we have a little more control and we can see that. But, you know, I think always just having a link, if you have a website that you can point people toward, it's always good to just have that.

[00:19:42] And then you, you can control that information, you know, what's there. So let's move on to, I know Julie's not on the call, but we wanted to talk about everybody who submitted something. So do you want to talk about Julia? 

[00:19:55] Nate: Yeah. So I guess her background is working in sociology and human development.

[00:19:59] She lives [00:20:00] in Western, Massachusetts. She has this beautiful rolling Hills and forests, and she's working on a podcast about the experience of aging and two of the notes that she put in slack really resonated with us. So Julie, forgive us later if I copy and paste them for our website. Cause they're really great.

[00:20:19] She said I have been blessed to experience a deep integration of my work and my life. Do you want to mention the book? 

[00:20:26] Laura: Yeah. So designing your life is the book that these particular episodes, or everything's an episode in life for me now that these two exercises were taken from, for this module.

[00:20:38] And if you're not familiar with this work, the authors are bill Burnett and Dave Evans. They have a class that they, I think still do at Stanford university. And this whole book kind of came out of a lot of their work, where they were working with people in a lot of different industries and really looking at, okay, how can we think about life?[00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Not as something that's like, you've either succeeded or failed. But even look at those failures as necessary steps in the process and thinking about life, the more, more, the way that a designer would, and a designer would say, okay, if this doesn't work, we're going to try a different way. And we're going to figure out we're going to keep trying different ways until it works.

[00:21:19] And so maybe you have 12 different ways that you try until you get to the 13th one that finally is the right answer for your particular project or your particular life. And so we wanted to start with these exercises because when I encountered this book and I actually talked about this in a recent episode that we did called productivity on hacked.

[00:21:43] I encountered this book for the first time, a handful of years ago at a time in my life when I was feeling. Very frustrated that I, I just didn't feel like my life was lining up with the, you know, the things that I actually did in my daily life, which many were wanting, you know, I was a mom and I [00:22:00]was writing and I was doing these things that I was very grateful to be a part of, but I still just didn't feel like I was really living the life that I had hoped I would have at that point in my life.

[00:22:10] And I didn't even fully understand why until I picked up that book that a friend gave me. And I, I talk about that experience a little bit in that episode, predictivity on hacked. But if any of you are looking for further resources, things to go deeper, this is a fantastic book to pick up. It's one that I keep coming back to years and years later, different exercises that they have in that book, different ways of thinking about things.

[00:22:35] It's been a really formative book. There've been a few books. I think that Nate and I would both say over the years as creatives and as pod-casters and his storytelling. We've just found to be so helpful to come back to as a reference again and again. And that's definitely one of them. And I, I love the work-life that integration that exercise of looking at work life [00:23:00] and then the integration of the two.

[00:23:02] And I love about it that they don't say work-life balance. And that's, you know, this is something that the two of us have talked a lot about in this work, where we have often found, especially in the stage of life that we're in right now, where we have, you know, we have essentially two businesses and we're very much in startup mode.

[00:23:22] And we have been in startup mode for almost two years now. And there are a lot of weeks where we are just, we know, like we're working too much, we're working too long of hours. And also at the same time, It's been one of the most joyful periods of life because we've realized we actually really love what we're doing.

[00:23:42] And we even love the way that it has changed our family and our parenting. And it's not all perfect. Like we're, you know, there's work constantly readjusting and figuring it out. But I think this idea of work-life balance suggests that there is a perfect way to show up in the [00:24:00] world where you have, you know, that perfectly equal balance of work and life.

[00:24:04] And then it's all happy and fulfilled. And, and I don't know about you, but like I've never experienced that at any point in my life, no matter what I'm doing. And I think thinking about the integration of the two for me at least is a much more helpful way to think about it because I think there are seasons of life.

[00:24:24] You know, when I was a mom with young kids, I mean, my kids are still young, but when they were babies, you know, when I had. That was a time in my life when most of the hours of my day were just keeping them alive. And, you know, that was, it. Wasn't a, that wasn't like the dream that I'd always had for myself in a lot of ways is a creative, but it was necessary for that time of life.

[00:24:45] And was my work and life balance. No, not at all. You know, it was, it was totally out of whack in some ways. And some of those ways were actually tough on my mental health. And I've had to kind of unpack that as time's gone by and here we [00:25:00] are kind of flipping that in a season of life where now I'm feeling like, man, I want to spend more time with my kids and I don't feel like I get enough time with them and I'm loving my work, but I'm also wishing for more of that family time.

[00:25:13] And so I think just recognizing that different times of life are going to be. You're going to experience different seasons of life in different ways. And that's okay. You know, it's okay for there to be seasons where you're working a lot, if that's what you're choosing to do, because your reasons for creating lineup with that, and you know, that you're living into that.

[00:25:33] And then it's also okay for there to be seasons where you say, okay, I'm not showing up. And like, I'm not the ideal friend to everybody in my life right now. And we'll get into this more in future modules. But I just wanted to touch on it a little bit because I think it's, sometimes we can be really hard on ourselves that we're not keeping every area of life perfectly balanced.

[00:25:54] And I think that image is just kind of a fallacy that, you know, we've been sold.[00:26:00] I mean, at least in American culture, I, I'd be curious to hear from around the world, those of you tuning in from other places, if you feel this as well. But I think we're often told that we can. You know, be perfectly balanced self-actualized human beings.

[00:26:14] And I think, you know, life is messier than that and it gets a lot more complicated. I don't know if you want to add 

[00:26:20] Nate: no, I think that was, that was fine. I, Peter, I just, you, I just say email and I, there was like one really important thing that I want to touch on. I think for the benefit of everyone answering, you know, the question of why create, you know, Peter wrote, if I answered this question, I have to answer this as a creative person, which I don't naturally identify with.

[00:26:43] And I would say one of the most powerful things, I think for both of us, in terms of how we see ourselves has simply been doing a lot of work. It's like, well, I consider myself a writer because I write every [00:27:00] day, you know, sometimes it's I write a letter to my kids in their journal, or I write a draft of an episode.

[00:27:06] Or, you know, I write a description for website, but almost every day, I'm there, I'm taking words out of my head and putting them someplace and you know, Laura for the same thing, it's like, well, she didn't consider herself a podcaster two years ago, but now, you know, he or she has made over 185 episodes of a podcast.

[00:27:29] So now she's a podcast. So I think, I think I would just affirm. I actually, I don't even like using the word creative as a noun, which is something that often happens in certain industries, because I think it suggests that some people are capital C creatives and some people are not. And I would say no, it's part of human nature.

[00:27:54] We all can create. And so I would say Peter has, as you continue to create more of [00:28:00] your more episodes of your. You will feel, you will feel that more. So I guess I want to acknowledge that's a, a natural feeling of many people have, and also say, I think you'll, it'll evolve for you as you keep making your show.

[00:28:15] So let's see, who do we have next? 

[00:28:17] Laura: Well, I'm Peter, did you have any follow up questions or comments before we move on to the next person here? 

[00:28:24] Peter: I know I can just agree with what you've said. The, the show description was, is still in its prototype. It was before I knew where I was going or what I was going to do.

[00:28:34] Put it out there as, yeah, like you say, as a, as a functional description and sure. You know the, to, to make that the benefits bring out the benefits is where to go. I mean, that'll be a challenge. And, but I just like to ask the book that you referenced what, 

[00:28:51] Laura: yes. 

[00:28:51] I will type it in it, in the chat.

[00:28:53] Yes. And it is, and the module as 

[00:28:56] Nate: well, I'll share it. I'll share a transcript of our, of [00:29:00] our notes as well. And then I think finally, okay. Yeah. Yeah, fantastic book, highly recommended it's in our, in our sort of curriculum. Think Julie also made a comment which resonated a lot for us. She said my work has felt like a very precious.

[00:29:16] And the evolving expression of supporting people in remembering themselves accessing more and more capacity to meet and navigate life with greater ease, across a wider and wider range of experience, the joys, the challenges and everything in between. And I just, I thought that was a beautiful and inspiring statement.

[00:29:38] It really matches up with what we're trying to, to do the show to, you know, to equip people to face a future. And I think this, you know, Peter, this, this ties, this ties to your work, right? I'm thinking like, well, what's part of the emotional pay off of listening to your show. It's feeling like I have more tools and more energy and more inspiration [00:30:00] to face the world ahead.

[00:30:01] I have a better idea of what I want to do with my life and, you know, a better. A better feeling about the world and the people around me. So anyway, Julie, great. A great con can 

[00:30:12] Laura: we Joshua got his hand up here before we go on to the next one and Jennifer, I dunno. I think that means you're raising your hand, not tell us I see the little raise hand, but I don't know if that means we'll give him a second.

[00:30:25] Maybe it just means he's stepping away for a minute. All right. Well, Joshua, if you come back and you hear this and you have a question, please let us know. So let's talk about Regina, who is not on this call right now because she is in Hong Kong and it is, I think it's like four in the mornings. It's not an hour, but he shouldn't be awake or wants to be.

[00:30:50] So Regina, his podcast is called hash hash, pat. Sorry, let me try that again. Hashtag impact. And it, I actually, [00:31:00] it's kind of fun. Regina and I met before this class she and I were both honorable mentioned for the golden crane awards back in December. And so we ended up actually connecting. They had sort of this gallery views, zoom call for the award ceremony, where everybody was in formal attire and it was very sweet and she and I connected through the chat and then offline had a call.

[00:31:23] And I'm delighted that she's a part of this course now. It's wonderful. But she grew up in Vienna. She's been in Hong Kong for a while. She actually has her own course on podcasting and does quite a bit of podcasts education with the seven other women around the world on her team. And her big insight for this module was that she wrote this in slack, how deep I can still feel.

[00:31:48] I often feel a bit numb over these past years functioning with quotes and the midst of this. But I am still me. I still feel it, that energy, that spirit, that passion for [00:32:00] connection for people, for living, for creating. And that her big question was how can I make sure to access that energy to create even during times when life happens?

[00:32:10] I think that this is one of the most challenging things that I personally have found that I face as a podcaster and especially with a weekly podcast, certainly when, when we were doing daily for those hundred episodes, is that, you know, the creative process when you're, whether it's making an episode or doing something else.

[00:32:32] It doesn't always behave by your timelines and life. Doesn't always behave by your timelines. You know, you may have a production schedule and hopefully you do. If you've got a weekly or, you know, a podcast that's going on a regular schedule and then things will happen. I mean, you know, for us, our whole family got hit with COVID in January, in a time when we were so busy that we could not slow down and we could, you know, we didn't have even a day to take off work because we had stuff that we had to just keep [00:33:00]going.

[00:33:01] And so the episodes that we were putting out, we started to really feel it in a different way. And I think there've been many times over the course of doing this work where I have felt the need. Like it's the expectation, especially as a weekly podcast or to put something out that's good every single week.

[00:33:22] And then still just being a human being who has like normal human being things happen, where you get sick or you change jobs or you move, or you. Depressed or you, you know, you have anxiety or whatever it is, you know, we all deal with these different things. A lot of times you have to make some adjustments, either in your work or your life or both to, to recalibrate.

[00:33:47] And I think for us, you know, we're in it right now with the weekly episodes. We've realized that as much as we've loved that rhythm and there've been some great things about it and it's, you know, it's very nice when you're talking about [00:34:00] downloads and gaining traction and engagement and all of that. But I think the flip side to that is it's an unrealistic standard to hold yourself to, to be putting out really excellent work week after week after week after week.

[00:34:15] Especially if your episodes, I mean like ours, I, I started actually clocking it of like, okay, every time I sit down and work on an episode, you know, how long over the course of that time does it take. This is something Stevie and I were talking about at the beginning of the call before everybody else came on.

[00:34:32] I mean, some of those 30 minute extra episodes that you hear took us 40, 60, sometimes more hours to create a 30 minute episode and not all of them have, you know, I mean, certainly in season one, they were much faster than that, but you can hear that as the quality went up, so did the time that it takes it.

[00:34:53] Now we've gotten faster in certain ways. And you know, we're going to teach you a lot of that stuff that we've learned, but I think this bigger [00:35:00] question of why create is so important, because if you are setting yourself up for something that you don't have the bandwidth to keep going with, that's going to come back to bite you eventually.

[00:35:11] And it doesn't mean that you can't do it. You know, I mean, in our case, we're, we're having lots of big conversations. Okay, how can we do this work a little differently? How can we work smarter? How can we keep putting out the great work that we want to put out, but maybe it's not every week. You know, maybe when we look at the next season, we look at bi-weekly or even monthly, and maybe we're at a time when that actually makes a ton of sense for us.

[00:35:34] And so I think just continually asking yourself this question of why create what, you know, staying true to those things that you have said for yourself, this is what's important to me. I don't think we ever stop asking those questions. And I think that's actually a good thing. I think it's good for us to evolve as creators and to be continually adjusting to life and saying, this is too much like I'm burning out.

[00:35:56] I need to do it differently. Now. [00:36:00]

[00:36:00] Nate: I think I would, I would add to that. I think just to reiterate, you know, you look at the natural world and there are lots of things that have written. You know, animals hibernate, and then they come on, they're active for, you know, then there's seasons, but so much of modern life, there are no external cues to get us to rest or to stop, or to simply acknowledge that we are done with this period of creativity.

[00:36:27] You know, cause like technology is always on. If you are, you know, really like tracking your downloads and your rankings and stuff, the incentive is always to keep putting stuff out because you are rewarded for releasing regularly every week or every day or whatever it is and you were penalized for not doing so.

[00:36:48] And so it's really, it's really hard, but you know, Regina, you said your kids were home because of COVID quarantine again. And so that seems like, okay, maybe that's just a time to [00:37:00] accept that this is going to be a period of less productivity and you know, Laura, as she said, had a long period of mostly stories.

[00:37:09] And then these past two years of the pandemic have been of her expressing all this pent up energy, 185 episodes, and that's been fantastic, but now it feels like we're coming to this other inflection point of needing to reevaluate. And then a final, a final note for you, Regina in particular, but also for everyone.

[00:37:31] Again, the show description is so hard to write and Regina is description. I think I, I found it here hashtag impact is about people making a social impact with the work they do. And so like, you know, Peter, again, as we've said, that is a factual description, but how is the show going to make me feel, you know, is what is it?

[00:37:56] And also here's like another consideration is how [00:38:00] is my show different from the many other shows that may also be about. You know you know, environmental efforts or movies or relationships or whatever each of your shows might be about. Right. Because I think another bigger thing that we hope for each of you to take away from this course is realizing that one of the great things we each have to give to the world is ourselves.

[00:38:26] You know, like you, you know, you, Peter Hall, you Joshua Dudley you know, you, Kate Lawrence, you Stevie mans, each of you has a unique perspective on the world. And ideally I will get that from your show description, right? Because Peter, the way you are doing a show about, you know, environmental issues might be different than the way Stevie would do it.

[00:38:52] And so I think like Regina, for example, to take hers, her show description, mentions that it's made in Hong Kong. [00:39:00] And so then when I read that, I wonder, well, is this a show that is very particular to Hong Kong? Does it deal with Hong Kong related issues? Are the narrators people who really represent, you know, the Hong Kong point of view?

[00:39:17] If so, then I think that's really helpful. If not, if she, if she's really trying to tell, you know, kind of more universal stories, then maybe the fact that it's, you know, coming from Hong Kong is not as important as, you know, the way that it makes people feel encouraged, change makers in the world. So again, I think, I think Regina would have a, you know, kind of a similar suggestion for you as a Peter of, of try a bunch of different iterations of your show description.

[00:39:49] Bounce them around within your team because the Virginia works with six or seven other women, you know, Sharon and slack for the group to discuss. Because again, like just like Peter, you [00:40:00] have a, really, a really exciting idea for a show. And, you know, let's see if we can get people who are just scanning through their podcast app, seeing, oh, w what's a show I would want to click on so that they will click on a cause they will see how wonderful your unique 

[00:40:18] Laura: show in your point of view are we have a couple of minutes left.

[00:40:22] I'd love to take. Just a minute and ask if you, if you're willing Stevie and Kate to maybe hear from you about, you know, your responses to these questions of why do you create if you are willing to share your elevator pitch for your future podcast, or maybe your current podcast, if it's something you're working on and then you know, how your vision for your podcast and your work has evolved based on this week's module.

[00:40:46] If, if either of you're willing to share, I'd love to make room for that since we have a little bit of time left here. Okay. Would you like to go first?

[00:40:57] Nate: I'm 

[00:40:57] Kate: just moving. I'm still wondering whether just you, [00:41:00]you have a question, does his hands still up and now he's back. 

[00:41:04] Laura: I asked earlier, but I think you were away 

[00:41:05] Joshua: from home. I had to go to the bathroom. I'm sorry. It was more of a comment, really, if that's okay. It was a baby you're mentioning Joe Rogan. I just wanted to prep myself up for a moment and say, cause I, cause I had been writing about a podcast for Forbes for so long Al Jazeera reached out and I got interviewed on their TV show that listing posts about Spotify and Joe Rogan.

[00:41:27] Wow. And and I really like what Nate said about transcripts and context and links. And that is maybe if enough people, like you said that maybe he would actually do that, which would be great. And then everybody else would get the idea. Anyway, basically what I said was the genie's out of the bottle.

[00:41:45] Everybody is the media and you can't control everybody. So we do the best that we can. I think so 

[00:41:52] Laura: I, it's such a good point, Joshua and I think something I've realized is, you know, we're probably not going to convince other people [00:42:00] to change their minds about things, you know, wherever you're coming from politically and whatever, you know, I I'm sure, even in this call, we come from slightly different places, but I think what we can do is give people the information to make decisions for themselves, and then hopefully give them a slightly different perspective by bringing them into a story that can maybe just shift their perspective a little bit.

[00:42:22] It's probably not going to change everything for them. That's probably not realistic, but you know, I think that is the power of storytelling when it's done well, you can bring someone into someone else's experience. Maybe they don't know anybody like that in their life, or maybe that's not an experience they've had, but they can recognize in that other person like, oh, we have, we have some stuff in common here.

[00:42:45] We have some shared experience or shared, you know, perspective based on entering into this person's experience. So I think that's, that's the gift that story telling can give us it. Doesn't always, of course, but you know, that's, that's what we aspire to [00:43:00] with everything we do here. So I think it's a great point.

[00:43:08] Kate: You can go Stevie, go for 

[00:43:09] Laura: it. I guess to your point about why create, so I guess Joshua, I liked what you said earlier about 

[00:43:17] Kate: putting something out that you wanted to see. I think for me, I think it's also, you know, I love art and I love consuming art and having it expand 

[00:43:28] Laura: my mind. And I also like to do that with my, my own art.

[00:43:32] And I also use it as a way to express what I'm feeling. You know, 

[00:43:35] Stevie: I guess I started off as a musician. I still am one. My podcast is a writers podcast and my description is it's a podcast to help some writers level up their craft for industry success. So I think that was just 

[00:43:51] Laura: like my, like honing it, honing it all the way 

[00:43:54] Kate: down.

[00:43:54] And that was something I did recently. I had something and it was, you know, like it was maybe I interview industry [00:44:00] experts and digging deep into the creative process, which is what I do, but it's not the benefit that someone else is going to get from it. So I think that was a really helpful exercise for me.

[00:44:10] So I, what were the other questions? Oh, in terms of what I want to do. So. I would love to do sort of narrative stuff. I don't do anything currently I'm into, so I quit my job in finance in October. Hey today's absolutely. So it was, that was 14 years of how graduated in 2008 and got stuck. And I had a visa that got me to the states and then, you know, I had to kind of get out of that whole mess.

[00:44:39] And I started in radio when I was in my twenties. So it's something that I wanted to come back to. And, you know, my podcast kind of got me back into radio as it were and the, the thing that I wanted to do with it. So it's kind of, you know, a medium that's allowing me to go back into audio production.

[00:44:55] So I want to, you know, go back into audio production in terms of being an independent 

[00:44:59] Laura: [00:45:00] audio producer. 

[00:45:01] Kate: I'm currently interviewing for a few roles and, you know, narrative is the thing that I didn't really have. And there's just, it's, it's really hard to find places that you can learn to do this, whether it's narrative or whether it's signed design and like, I love sign design.

[00:45:16] I'm just a huge nerd of bikes. So that's, that's why 

[00:45:19] Laura: I'm here. Thank you. We agreed to heavier and I want to read your comment too, which I didn't see earlier, but I do now. So you said in the comment in the chat, one thing I did recently as part of an exercise was to describe my show in 20 words and hone in on what it is and what the benefits are, and then cut from that 20 to 10.

[00:45:39] I found it really effective. Yeah, we're actually, there's an exercise that is sort of similar to what you're talking about in a future module. And, you know, we said it earlier in the call, but I think that description. Of your podcast and actually your own personal bio too. Those two things are probably the pieces of writing that [00:46:00] I have written and rewritten and rewritten.

[00:46:02] I mean, more times than I can count, not just as a podcast or, but like my entire life that I've been writing and creating things. And what's so surprising to me is how, even when you get a version that you really love and you're like, yeah, I nailed it. Now you still find yourself in situations where you're like, oh, this I need to adjust it again.

[00:46:22] Like the thing that looks great and on paper, Actually, it doesn't really work in conversation. I need a sort of more casual version of it for when I'm at a conference and I'm meeting somebody and I need to give them an, you know, 10 seconds or less who I am and what I'm doing or, 

[00:46:37] Nate: or you, you have evolved yeah.

[00:46:40] Right 

[00:46:40] Laura: to work has. Or it's the thing that I think I want to encourage all of you, like, just keep constantly tweaking it, save those old versions because sometimes the older versions you got to go back to and pull things from, but that's, that's a future exercise in some of the coming modules and it's, it's hard, you know, we just keep, [00:47:00] keep doing it over and over again until it feels right.

[00:47:02] And then you keep readjusting. So Kate, are you willing to share with us? I put in the chat, the three questions. Why do you create what's the elevator pitch for your podcast and has your vision for your podcasts evolved based on this week's module, if you're willing, we'd love to hear from you since we have a little bit at a time.

[00:47:20] Kate: Sure. The quick and it's good too. It was good to listen to yesterday because it helped me. I mean, why creates such a, so many reasons. But I come to podcasting via story. So when you said, oh, I haven't done much narrative. It's like, oh, that actually I've been an oral storyteller for maybe 10 years. And and I came to story as an antidote to the law.

[00:47:42] I was a lawyer for a long time. And the whole notion of adversarial, ways of understanding just was crazy. And, and story has a way of cutting through that. And so I'm a student of story. It's it's, it's it's. It's like a cone, you know, you think it's tiny. We tell stories all the time, but [00:48:00] behind the door of the word story is like, it's just everything, everything.

[00:48:04] And there's never ending ways of understanding it. So so so, so that's kind of why I create, you know, to understand the world, to, to express myself, to influence, to bring voices that are a little heard to, to the fore to reflect, to tell memoir yeah. Millions of reasons. And elevator pitch for future podcast.

[00:48:27] I, you know, I don't have this down, pat it's I'm going to play with a completely scripted podcast a historical one, so there's no history, there's no actuarials. I could interview historians, but I decided I don't want to, I want to do it as a complete script. And it's about the first woman to practice medicine in Australia.

[00:48:47] And, and it's also her timeline covers the, the first wave of feminism and getting the boat in Australia and all of that. So yeah, I don't have that elevator [00:49:00] pitch anywhere near down. It's just a vague idea. And I don't think it evolved listening. To this weeks, although I've done a little bit of, like, I do like the weaving of memoir with, with NA with a bigger story.

[00:49:16] And I've done a little bit of that in an, in an earlier podcast that I had a season, a couple of seasons for my local community. So yeah, just listening. Yeah, it was just interesting. So yeah, 

[00:49:30] Laura: that's 

[00:49:30] room: me. 

[00:49:32] Laura: Yeah, thank you, Kate. And I think that elevator pitch, you know, one of the reasons we're asking everybody early on is that we know that it takes a lot of time to really refine that.

[00:49:44] And so the more you can just get yourself practicing, even if it feels like, oh, I don't know if this is right. I don't really have the fully realized idea yet. To be able to just continue to push yourself to articulate that the more you talk about it, the more you write it down, the more you have [00:50:00]conversations about it, the clearer that ideal will get in your head.

[00:50:03] And then I I don't know if this'll be exactly what you're looking for, but there's a podcast that immediately came to mind when you were talking called history, detective podcasts. I just dropped the link in the chat. And that I've actually had a little bit of interaction with the creator she's in Australia.

[00:50:19] Really lovely person and might just be a fun one for you to check out. And I'm also going to put. The other one that I mentioned to you earlier, Peter, a inherited podcast, which I thought that would drop the link, but 

[00:50:36] Nate: okay. Thanks for the notes on the microphone. Sorry. How are we sounding? 

[00:50:41] Laura: Oh yes. And Stevie you're each CV.

[00:50:43] Just let me know that my mic sounds very quiet. Thank you for letting me know that. I apologize if you all have been struggling to hear us. We did a little sound check before, but we will, we will readjust that again and let's see anybody else, you know, [00:51:00]

[00:51:00] Nate: I think just, I think Kate, I think just to quickly reflect, I think your, your show sounds interesting, you know, like those are, those are important, important topics, like an uncovering this like landmark historical figures.

[00:51:18] I guess what I would keep trying to dig into, you know, as you, as you continue to refine your description and work on the show is like, what's, what's the emotional heart of the show. And what, why do I want to listen to your show instead of the other podcasts about historical figures, right. But yeah, please keep, keep riffing on and keep thinking over a share in slack and yeah.

[00:51:44] And we can get some feedback from the group. 

[00:51:47] Laura: Yeah. And just to remind everyone, both who's on this call live and who sees this later for the coaching calls, submit your questions by Thursday evening. And we were doing everything by Pacific time, just as we're in California, [00:52:00] but really it's like when we wake up Friday, we'll look at whoever you submitted stuff and you can do that through chat through slack.

[00:52:06] You can also do it. There'll always be a button in the module that you. Clip-on to send us an email with that. And starting next week, you'll notice at the bottom of the module page, it'll be way down at the bottom, a short feedback form. We would love to, you're not required to fill that out, but if you have feedback for us on the modules of like, Hey, I wish for more of this thing, or can we adjust this thing a little bit?

[00:52:29] You know, we definitely want to hear how your experience is of this. This is we've done this, these teaching modules several different times, but we've never done it in exactly this way before. And so we definitely want to hear from you if you have. Questions ideas, suggestions, whatever. Please let us know too quiet.

[00:52:46] I'm so sorry that this whole call, the volume has been quiet. Is it better now? I just, I just adjusted some things. No, still quiet. Okay. We're going to troubleshoot that one before the next one. And thank you for letting us know both of you. I think that was Peter and Stevie who sent [00:53:00] us direct messages on that.

[00:53:01] So have a wonderful weekend, everybody. It was lovely to see you today and we'll look forward to seeing you next week on slack and on the call on Friday. 

[00:53:10] Peter: Can I just say thank you so much for creating this is fantastic. It's really, it's really what I've been doing. 

[00:53:17] Laura: I'm so glad. I'm really glad. And I hope, yeah.

[00:53:20] I hope that it's a wonderful experience for all of you. We've a lot of joy and thought has gone into creating it and it's really is pain and 

[00:53:30] Peter: pain. 

[00:53:32] Laura: Well, I'm glad. And yeah, please reach out if you have any questions throughout the week. Okay. Cool. All right. Great to meet you. 

[00:53:42] Joshua: Thanks so much for all the context and all the questions and the 

[00:53:45] Laura: modules and everything.

[00:53:46] It's been fun. Yeah. We're excited to see you in the coming week. Yeah. Yeah.