Beyond Networking Audio Tutorial transcript ▫︎ Arielle Nisenblatt, Earbuds Collective

[00:00:00] Arielle: I am Ariel Nissen, Blatt. I have been working in the podcast space for a little over five years and I'm obsessed with it. I think it's the best place to be in. And my goal is to help more people.

[00:00:11] Be able to work in podcasting, whether it's on the business side or the production side or anywhere in between sustainably. I do that through being helpful on Twitter and in other places as well. I work for squad cast full-time I run earbuds podcast collective. I help co-host the sound's profitable podcast and I do a bunch of other stuff.

[00:00:31] Just really try to be in as many places at one. In the podcast space. And I really like to keep up with what's going on because it's the coolest place. 

[00:00:39] Laura: The stories that I will often tell people about you Ariel, is that I was about ready to give up on Twitter. you have basically been the reason that I stay on Twitter, I'm still not a Twitter all-star I probably never will be.

[00:00:52] But the stuff that you put on Twitter is so incredibly helpful consistently to the podcast community. And it's [00:01:00] been really, really fun to just watch you since I kind of became aware of your work and then getting to meet you at she podcast live to just see your work really explode 

[00:01:10] so I'm very, very excited for people to know about you and about the work you're doing. And I would love to hear what the path was that led you to where you are now. . What were you doing before that, that got you into

[00:01:21] Arielle: podcasting? 

[00:01:22] I was working for a Jewish nonprofit in Mississippi. It was my first job after college I had studied geography in college and I loved it, . I thought for a minute that I would become certified in geographic information systems and make maps. And I really like demographics and population and things like that. That's always been really interesting to me and that sort of relates to marketing.

[00:01:41] I always think. But. I started listening to a lot of podcasts when I was in Jackson, Mississippi. I Would travel a lot for work while I was traveling and getting to know the interstate system in the south. I also really got to know the larger landscape of podcasts. Although I was not thinking critically about podcasts at the [00:02:00] time, it took me a while to say, what is this space and 

[00:02:04] how do I actually work in the podcast space? The thing that brought me into the podcast space was. Earbuds podcast collective, which is my weekly newsletter, 

[00:02:13] which I'm thinking of rebranding to just earbuds, because it is annoying to say earbuds podcast, collective, you heard it here first. Earbuds. I started in 2017 after I moved to Los Angeles. After my two year fellowship in Jackson I started working for a nonprofit in Los Angeles and had to commute and was stuck in traffic all the time and it was miserable. But then I wasn't miserable because of podcasts. 

[00:02:33] And then I thought I want to listen to more podcasts because my mind was expanding every time I listened to a podcast and I wanted that to happen 50 times a day, instead of just once or twice a day.

[00:02:43] And I thought, how can I do this? I know that there are hundreds of thousands of podcasts out there. This was 2017. There weren't millions yet. How can I find the ones that are worth my time? And the answer was curation. What I was discovering without knowing it was the discoverability problem that everybody talks about.

[00:02:57] But I don't think that term existed then. I [00:03:00] thought, let me start a newsletter. That's curated by a different person each week so that we can always listen to podcasts from somebody else's perspective. Maybe they're a subject matter expert. Maybe they're just somebody who has a podcast and wants to share the genre that their podcast is in.

[00:03:13] And also curators can include one of their own episodes as part of their list. But the point is every week you're going to get something new. That newsletter just celebrated five years, which is nuts. When I think about that, I've been doing it for half a decade and that newsletter helped me get full-time jobs in the space.

[00:03:28] And also that newsletter helped me learn how to do email marketing and how to do social media for a business. And it also taught me to make a podcast. Cause there's a podcast that goes along with the newsletter 

[00:03:39] and it also. Is monetized now. It's, really amazing. When I look back at 2017, me who didn't have confidence when it came to a lot of professional endeavors and now I feel pretty confident about most things that I am asked to talk about.

[00:03:52] Laura: Well done. That's inspiring to hear about. If you're willing, I'd love to hear about the monetizing part of that. Like How did you go [00:04:00] about getting that work monetized? 

[00:04:01] Arielle: The first quote, unquote ad that I had was podcast movement in 2017. They did not pay me, but they let me go to podcast movement for free in exchange for running ads on my newsletter.

[00:04:12] I think that that does a few things. Number one, it got me to podcast movement, which was huge. That absolutely propelled me in the podcast space. Number two, it looked like I had an ad on my newsletter, which meant that other people were interested in advertising on my newsletter. So then I set up a page on my web.

[00:04:29] Where people could learn more about advertising opportunities. And I remember in 2017 contacting Kevin Goldberg who used to run, discover pods he was one of my early mentors in monetization and email marketing 

[00:04:41] and I said, how much do I charge? I was so nervous and so much imposter syndrome. Like why would I run an ad on my newsletter? And he was like, there are some rules that you can go by, but for the most part, you need to figure out how you value your time and how you value your audience and especially when it comes to who the advertising partner is and how they.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] Want to interact with your subscribers. 

[00:05:02] I think early on, somebody told me that it was $10 for every a hundred subscribers as a base layer. And if you bring that figure up to some people, they'll say that's way too low. And other people say that's way too high. The answer is it's somewhere in between, because it has to do with who the advertiser is, who you are, what makes sense.

[00:05:18] For their audience, what makes sense for your audience? So if somebody wanted to advertise for guitars on my podcast, would be like that doesn't really make sense, but I want your money. can pay a thousand dollars for every a hundred subscribers. And they'd probably say no. And I'd probably say no, but if the advertisers.

[00:05:32] Is a podcast company like pod page who, makes websites for podcasters, that is a perfect match. So they really want to get in front of my audience, but I also really want my audience to see that product because it also endears me to them to send them products that make sense for them.

[00:05:47] What I charge now is pretty set in stone unless you contact me and you're like, Hey, this doesn't make sense for me. I want to pay less. I want to pay more. That never happens.

[00:05:55] You never know. But if you go to my website, I have advertising packages linked on the [00:06:00] homepage and the cheapest ad is $35 a week. So pretty reasonable for you to get Your product in front of the subscribers. And then I also mentioned it on the podcast that I do. So you get a host read along with that, and then you also get social posts.

[00:06:13] My goal as somebody who is taking money from you is to make sure that that spend is worth your while I don't want you to have a bad time advertising.

[00:06:21] I did some outbound marketing in 20 17, 20 18, 20 19. I have not done outbound marketing since early, 2020. And I've had an ad every single week because of a few things. Number one, reputation, people know earbuds. People want to get their product or their podcast in front of your buds.

[00:06:39] Number two, we have been listed on enough blogs at this point. Where the title is something like here are a bunch of newsletters where you can pay to have your podcast seen. And I also do enough Twitter spaces where I'm like, here's how to pitch newsletters. And if you don't get the editorial pitch or the earned media pitch, you can also pay for an ad.

[00:06:57] We get a ton of people who reach out and say, I want to get [00:07:00] my podcasts in front of your newsletter. How do I do that? I say, great. Here's the information on how to curate a list. You're welcome to do that. It's a really long line. In the meantime, you can buy an ad. That works a lot of the time. We also have a system where curators can have a discount to have their podcast in the classified section the week after their curation.

[00:07:17] I have bunch of systems in place that make it so that I don't have to do much outbound marketing at this point, which is such a blessing because I don't have time to do it. But yeah, that's how I monetized it and I hope that it continues. 

[00:07:28] Laura: The way you approach networking and podcasting to me is the gold standard of how it's done. And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about in your experience and this time that you've worked in this industry, what do all great networkers have in common, 

[00:07:45] Arielle: the desire to give more than they expect to receive? A lot of networking has to be, I have something to give. I want to share that. Yes, of course I need something in return, but let's first become friends, build trust with each [00:08:00] other, and then we can help each other out in a collaborative way. That makes sense for both of our entities.

[00:08:05] Laura: What's the biggest mistake that you see people make when it comes to networking and 

[00:08:09] Arielle: podcasting, not taking the time to get to know. The person that you are asking for something from and I'm kind of speaking right now in terms of pitches, but when you think about it, everything is a pitch, every single possible interaction you have with somebody as a pitch, my friends and I talk about this, that even when you make a joke, you are putting yourself out there and somebody can take it or they can reject.

[00:08:32] even when you ask somebody, if they want coffee, there's a nice way to respond to that. And then there's a not so nice way to respond to that. It's oh, thanks so much for asking I'm okay right now or no, or yeah, I would love some coffee. Thank you for asking. All of those are pitches.

[00:08:43] Everything is a pitch. I think where people trip up when they're thinking about networking in podcasting, Not reading the newsletter that you're pitching to, or not listening to the podcast that you want to pitch yourself as a guest on it is really worth the [00:09:00] time to commit to the space you can't cheat and make a list of 20 podcasts that you want to be a guest on.

[00:09:05] Without listening to those podcasts and knowing where you might fit in as a guest, it's really important to know where you want to place yourself. And also, what is your unique skillset or value proposition that makes you different from the podcast that you're pitching yourself to, or the newsletters you're pitching to 

[00:09:21] it takes a while to hone. I have sent out pitches. Even recently where I didn't fully do the research. And you can tell because you either don't get a reply or you get somebody who says this doesn't make sense for us. And that can be pretty like, oh yep.

[00:09:35] I messed up there. I could have done a little bit more research. It's still possible to trip up, even if you know, what's right. 

[00:09:41] Laura: When you don't get the pitch accepted. what's your next step? 

[00:09:45] I. 

[00:09:45] Arielle: Have a few examples, I'm helping a podcast for earth day. The podcast is called the trail ahead, and my goal was to get their podcasts listed on as many listicles as possible.

[00:09:56] So I had the creators of the [00:10:00] podcast put together a list of seven other podcasts, including. And I thought about posting it on the earbuds newsletter, but then I thought, you know, maybe let's go for something larger. So I reached out to pod chaser and I said, would you consider hosting a list of earth day podcast?

[00:10:15] From this amazing curator duo who hosts a podcast as well about environmental ism and being outdoors and things like that. And at first pod chaser said, we don't usually do lists in blog form. And I said, okay, no problem. Would you consider it for earth day? Or be willing to post it as a list because pod chaser has lists and they have their blog.

[00:10:33] And. ' cause I've been friendly with pod chaser for a long time, giving to them receiving from them, doing things in partnership with them. They ultimately came back to me and said, yes, and I think we can get it out tomorrow for you, even though it's going to be tough. And I said, that would be incredible.

[00:10:48] I'm happy to post it on my newsletter that you did that and to post all over social media. So that's an example of something that at first did not see. Like it was going to come through, but, I said, what would make this work? I think it's [00:11:00] all about knowing.

[00:11:00] The place that you're pitching to and what they have. know that pod chaser has the ability to make lists. Anybody can do that and they can post them on their own. And they also have a blog that is not user generated. You know, people can't post on their blog, but I know that it exists and I tried to take advantage.

[00:11:16] I have also pitched to a newsletter that does not get back to me in less. The show that I'm pitching looks really, really fancy cover art wise, you know, there's certain things that you just have to know when you're pitching what they are looking for and what they tend to accept and what they tend to reject.

[00:11:32] And how can you. Maneuver your pitch. How can you hone your wording, hone your artwork to make it look attractive to them. Sometimes it's as small as including a cover art image in your email, because otherwise the email looks too boring. 

[00:11:45] Laura: What do you wish that every podcast or understood about the industry 

[00:11:49] Arielle: that it takes a really long time?

[00:11:51] To gain traction for your show. And if you are a niche show and you don't have tons of budget behind what you're doing, you need to be in it for the long haul. [00:12:00] I recommend having an always on show of course, building in breaks when you need them. Seasons are great.

[00:12:05] And I think you'll see a lot of folks who have marketing budgets behind them do seasons because they will get funded for a season. Maybe it's 12 episodes, maybe it's six episodes, but I think an always on show is really important because it allows you to have a lot to barter with, for other shows that you might want to collaborate with.

[00:12:22] I think people need to be willing to immerse themselves into the podcast space, not just the creator space, but what is going on in the podcast space. Also the creator space, but follow all the things on Twitter, subscribe to all the newsletters, join all the Facebook groups. If you really want to commit to the podcast space,

[00:12:39] listening to podcasts is also really great. You know, creating is awesome.

[00:12:43] Creating is amazing, but the way I got into this space in the first place was by listening to podcasts. About the podcast industry about things that I was interested in. And I continue to have my mind blown every single day by listening to content through my years, because I think it's such an innovative, medium, and I hope people continue to create.

[00:12:59] And I also [00:13:00] hope people continue to listen because listening inspires the creation and it's a nice cycle that I love being a part of.