“Even for two professional writers, it’s been the sound (not just the script) that has contributed to our success.”
— Nate on Shelter in Place

Great sound // audio tutorial

February 28, 2022

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Laura: When people ask me how I got into podcasting, the story I often tell is how on March 17, 2020, I began a daily podcast to get me through what I thought would be a few weeks of my kids being home from school—and 4 months and 100 episodes later I’d given myself an education in audio.

But the story behind that began nearly a year before Shelter in Place, when I was applying for a Fulbright scholarship to Mexico and realized that a podcast might be the perfect way to capture the project I was putting together.

My idea was this: I’d interview people all over the political spectrum about the stories that shaped their views on immigration, and then I’d bring those stories together and give people with opposing views a chance to respond to each other.

I barely knew how to listen to a podcast, let alone how to make one, but a writer friend who had recently started a podcast offered to teach me what she’d learned.

That friend was the bestselling author Nina LaCour. If you’re on the hunt for some beautiful books, Nina has written many, and her podcast Keeping a Notebook is still one of my favorites.

Nina sat me down and showed me everything I needed to get started. How to get on a podcast hosting platform like Anchor or Acast or Libsyn; how and where to buy a podcast USB mic like the Blue Yeti she was using; how to download audio editing software—or a DAW, a digital audio workstation—the place where my sound files would be recorded. Nina wasn’t editing her own audio, but she knew just enough to record her audio into one, and recommended Audacity or Garageband because they were free.

She put me in touch with an audio editor she’d been using, who took her scripted Voiceover, music, and occasional interviews and made them into episodes. She also connected me with her friend and fellow writer Sarah Enni, who hosts the podcast First Draft, an interview podcast where writers talk about their process.

Sarah sent me a staggeringly thorough list of resources that I still occasionally reference. I’ve shared the relevant parts of that list with you as a supplement to this module.

But maybe the best advice Sarah gave me was to ask for advice often, to search for what I didn’t know on Google, and to make friends in audio. She said the podcasting community is a warm and inviting one, full of people who are generous with their time and knowledge.

Over the next few months, I took both Sarah and Nina’s advice. I bought two Blue Yeti USB mics—the same mic they were both using at the time—and downloaded Audacity. I got on a couple of radio Google Groups where I could start asking those questions to people who had spent their life in radio. I reached out to a high school friend who worked at the podcast hosting platform Acast, pitched her my idea over the phone, and landed six months of free hosting.

I came up with a list of questions to ask and started doing in-person interviews with those Blue Yeti mics. I interviewed people in their living rooms, in their basements, in echoey warehouse offices, and in my little backyard 100-square-foot writing studio.

After I interviewed a 65-year-old Trump supporter and a former student of mine who was undocumented and had been living in the U.S. since she was a baby, I started writing a script for an episode that would bring the two of them together. I found a transcription service that turned my interview tape into a moderately accurate transcript for less than $10, and used timestamps to piece together my interview tape with the VoiceOver I recorded from my scripted pilot episode.

I felt like I was learning constantly, and making mistakes constantly, too. I remember one particularly painful moment after a 90-minute interview when I realized that even though I’d been watching the screen the whole time while Audacity was recording and I’d saved the project, when I played back the interview tape, everything but the first two minutes was gone.

I learned to move ticking clocks and squeaky chairs out of the room, to use headphones so I could hear the tiny noises my mic would pick up, to keep myself quiet when my guest was talking so my cross talk wouldn’t distract listeners from what my guest had to say. Every time I messed up, I added it to my list of things I’d try not to do again. Slowly, I developed a checklist of recording dos and don’ts, the work I’d do up front to get the highest quality interview tape possible.

The part of the process that scared me the most was audio editing. I had grand visions of teaching myself Reaper when I saw how cheap it was, but as soon as I downloaded it, I felt immediately overwhelmed by its interface, and scared off by what seemed like a dead end brick wall rather than a sloping learning curve.

Since my Fulbright application gave me a hard deadline to meet, I decided to hire Nina’s audio editor to make my pilot episode and a 5-minute trailer. A musician friend who believed in what I was doing composed original music for a couple hundred bucks.

My VoiceOver and interview tape was far from perfect—my sound was echoey and there was a fair amount of crosstalk—but I was pleased with how it turned out—so much so that I decided to submit it for WNYC’s podcast accelerator contest . . . and a few weeks later learned that I’d been named a finalist. I’ve included the 5-minute trailer I submitted in this week’s module.

Listening back to that clip now, there’s a long list of things I would change at every stage of the process. But I’m also still really proud of that work, because it represents the first time I put my work out there publicly and invited feedback. WNYC did not select me as a winner of their contest, but they did give me some feedback on what was working and what wasn’t. Some of that feedback ended up shaping Shelter in Place, a podcast I wasn’t even planning on, but that would ultimately grow out of that original idea to bring people together in a world that all too often feels hopelessly divided.

I never would have been able to start Shelter in Place—let alone keep it going for 100 daily episodes—if I hadn’t done that other work in the year leading up to it. Even though I had no plan for where the podcast was going, I did have the beginnings of an audio editing ethos that could guide me, and remind me that there was always something more to learn.

And that’s what this module is all about: helping you create your own audio editing ethos. Whether you’re making one episode or 100, you’ll need a toolbox to help you get the best sound possible—and developing an audio editing philosophy that can help you learn from mistakes when you make them.

Nate: Even though I started working with Laura on the podcast relatively early—about two-thirds of the way through those hundred season 1 episodes—it took making almost 100 more episodes for me to finally be convinced that I needed to learn about making great sound, too.

Early on, I wasn’t as interested in getting down in the weeds with audio editing, because I figured my experience and time were better spent elsewhere. But after a while and repeated arguments about “me not really knowing how time-consuming this part was,” and us realizing it would be helpful for me to take on some of this part so Laura wouldn’t be so overworked, I started getting into the audio editing more, both in Descript and now Hindenburg. One benefit is that I can now give more informed feedback when Laura does stuff, and since I’m coming in from a different perspective, I can help articulate some of the implicit “Shelter in Place audio guidelines,” like for example a half to three-quarters of a second pause between sentences, or a full second pause between speakers.

We’ve both been pleasantly surprised to discover how much we enjoy audio editing, and how much more interesting the process of getting great sound can be than we’d originally assumed — in part because it’s another entire area in addition to the words in the script where different editorial choices can shape the final product.

Another satisfying part is that there is a measurable outcome with audio editing, a clear process and goal. Whether you’re working in a DAW or more visual audio editing program like Descript—we use a combination of the two—you can see your progress as you’re working. And the clearer you become on what great sound means to you, the better you’ll become at knowing whether or not your project still needs more work or is good enough to move on.

Laura: So let’s talk about what we’re looking for in great sound. Let’s start with the big picture, that question we keep asking of “why create?” Why does great sound matter?

The story you tell with sound is just as important as the one you tell with words. I’m not just talking about sound design, though that’s certainly a part of it that we’ll get to in a later module. I’m talking about how things like how echoey your audio is, or whether or not you keep or cut the umms and uhhs—what’s known as “filler words.” Great sound can create psychological intimacy with your listeners; terrible sound creates psychological distance that will make it harder for your listeners to feel engaged and immersed.

At Shelter in Place, we have 3 main goals when it comes to getting great sound: invite our listeners in, clear out the clutter, and do the best we can with what we’ve got.

Nate: Let’s start with goal #1: invite our listeners in.

In contrast to TV or radio or print, podcasts are a uniquely intimate medium. Radio has been called “the theater of the mind,” because with just the right words, music, and sound effects, listeners can gain access to stories in far-off places, or entrance into entire worlds.

But what makes podcasts even more intimate than radio? They live in our pockets, on our phones. For much of human history, people listened to music or lectures in public settings. For decades radio was a shared activity in the living room or the family car. But podcasts? Podcasts are often listened to alone, through earbuds or headphones: a one-to-one virtual conversation, a voice or story or conversation that feels like it’s been made just for you.

Because podcasts live largely on people’s phones, so there’s this amazing potential to create this intimate, personal-feeling relationship with listeners.

But the downside of podcasts living on phones? You’re always just a few taps away from all the other podcasts out there – not to mention text messages and social media and all the rest – so your sound quality needs to be good enough to pull listeners in—and keep them listening.

It’s worth paraphrasing one of today’s marketing axioms here: podcast listeners are information-rich, but time poor. They want to know, right now, if your show is the show for them. So most new listeners will only give you a couple minutes before they decide whether they’re going to stick with you, so those couple minutes really matter!

Laura: And this is where great sound comes in, because yes, great writing can transport us, and a soothing voice can work magic. But great sound can draw us close without us even realizing we’re being drawn in. The better your sound quality, the more your listener will want to lean in.

Think about your favorite podcast host’s voice, about what it feels like to listen to them talk. Great sound makes you forget that interferences like chair squeaks or gross mouth noises or airplanes flying overhead are even part of your reality. All you notice is the pleasurable experience of listening, of feeling like that person is close, like they’ve stopped everything else going on in their life just to talk to you. That is what we are talking about when we’re talking about great sound.

Nate: So how do we get that great, intimate sound?

Build a blanket fort.

Laura: We’re actually serious about this. In next week’s module you’ll hear that 5-minute trailer I told you about for my immigration podcast. The sound isn’t terrible, but it’s not great either. That’s because when I was recording my VoiceOver and my interviews for those episodes, I was just using my Blue Yeti in its mic stand on my desk in front of me. I was in my little writing studio with lots of windows and hard surfaces, a computer fan running next to the external monitor I was reading off of, and my little Blue Yeti was picking up all of those ambient sounds, and also airplanes flying overhead outside, garbage trucks driving by one block over, and my kids opening and closing the back door of the house 100 feet away.

Something I loved from the beginning about my Blue Yeti, that Nina and Sarah loved too, is that it has a really warm, intimate sound. But it also picks up EVERYTHING. Fortunately, by the time I recorded my first episodes of Shelter in Place, I had found a workable solution: the blanket fort.

Deep in some of the recording tips Sarah Enni sent me, I found an article where a reporter shared a hack he’d learned working in war zones. Since finding a studio or even a quiet room was impossible, he’d grab a blanket or a big jacket or whatever he could find, pull it over his head, and do his best to stay as still as possible while he recorded underneath his makeshift blanket fort.

I immediately tried this as soon as I learned about it, and the results were shockingly effective—so effective that even though I’ve upgraded my mic to a Shure MV7 and purchased a clamshell soundshield and a desk clamp so my mic is floating instead of sitting on my desk—even with all of those relatively affordable upgrades, all of which I recommend—I still use the blanket for. Yes, yes, I know that we could turn our writing studio into a full-time recording studio, but I love the hardwood floors and the wood paneled accent wall and the windows that let in natural light. So I stil with the blanket fort.

I want to drop into the weeds for just a moment here to get really specific. I use not one blanket, but two. I also have a couple of couch pillows, one that my clamshell sits on top of so the areas all around my mic are soft surfaces, and the other that I hold right in front of my belly so the area where the clamshell opens doesn’t let any sound escape in. Since I’m reading a script off of my external monitor, I haven’t been able to completely get away from the computer fan noise, but the clamshell with these modifications does a pretty good job blocking it out.

In the days before I had the clamshell sound shield, I would prop up a couple of soft-sided backpacks and couch pillows around my mic to create a similar effect.

Finally, I make sure that my headphones are on while I’m recording, so that I can hear it if I accidentally click my computer mouse while I’m talking or an airplane flies overhead while I’m recording. If those things happen, it’s not a big deal. I just wait for it to be quiet and then continue.

This setup works pretty well for recording VO, but it’s not really practical for interviews. For interviews, I have one of those room divider screens, and I drape it with blankets and then pull it around me like a shield from behind. That combined with my clamshell mic setup and a good mic like the Shure MV7 does a decent job of blocking out noise. Not as good as the blanket fort, but way better than if I’m just sitting on Zoom with my earbuds.

Nate: Which brings us to goal #2: clear away the clutter before you begin.

Laura: Just as great sound can provide intimacy and connection with our listeners, the opposite is also true. The worse the sound quality, the more it feels like a conversation in a crowded room: something the listener has to work through to pay attention. Echoes, background noise, coughs, throat clearings, chair creaks, mouth clicks, computer mouse clicks—all of these things are barriers between you and your listener, clutter on the stage of the theater of the mind.

Nate: Think about when you’re talking on the phone with someone who’s outside walking down a city street on a windy day. You might be having a wonderful conversation with a person you love, but all the wind noise and car horns in the background are something you have to get past just to understand what that person is saying.

Laura: At Shelter in Place, we have a list of things we always do to clear away the clutter, both on the front end of recording interview tape and VoiceOver, and on the back end of audio editing. You’ll see starter templates for these in this week’s module, and we’ll be adding to that in future modules as we get deeper into best practices for interviewing and VoiceOver techniques.

But to give a quick overview of what we’re looking for, I’ll say this: we try to avoid or take out anything that might be distracting to our listeners.

On the front end, this means that we’ll try to make our recording environment as quiet as possible, and to cover hard surfaces with blankets or pillows or rugs—or yes, even get under a blanket fort. If I’m interviewing someone and they just said something brilliant while smacking their fist on the table, I’ll ask them if they’d mind repeating what they just said, but without the fist smack. I’ll do my best to keep still and quiet while they are talking, or if we’re doing a remote interview, I might mute my own mic while they’re talking.

If I’m recording my VO and I need to scroll or click my mouse to get to the next page of my script, I’ll stop talking while I do that, and then make sure I’m still and quiet before I begin speaking again.

Which brings us to goal #3: do the best you can with what you’ve got.

Laura: Sometimes you’ll do everything in your power to get great sound, and you still come up short. One of the reasons we’ve had you listen to Lost and Found revisited for this week’s module is that it’s full of interview tape that came to us cluttered even though we were the ones doing the interviews and we did our best to coach our guests through the process. Unless you’re doing all of your interviews and recording in a professional studio, you’re going to have times where this happens, and there are a lot of reasons why it might.

The first and most common reason we’ve found is that many of us live in noisy places, or small apartments with roommates and tile floors and street noise, or we’re right under the flight path of a major airport.

I’ve already shared with you my own tricks for getting ground sound with a blanket fort, a clamshell sound shield, a podcast mic, and a good pair of headphones.

But let’s say you don’t have any of this: no podcast, no clamshell sound shield, no room divider you can drape with blankets. Many of the trainees in our Kasama Collective training program were faced with this exact situation, so we started testing out different setups, trying to figure out how to get the best sound possible on an extremely tight budget.

Here’s what we found: the voice memo app on a smartphone makes for a pretty good recording.

If you can get inside a bedroom closet with a carpeted floor or sit on your bed under a blanket fort, you can usually get some pretty decent sound. If you own a car with cloth seats and you have the option of parking somewhere quiet, you can actually get impressively great sound recording in that sealed up space with all of its soft, sound-dampening surfaces.

Yes, it’s great to have podcast mic and we do recommend that you get one. But ultimately the recording environment matters more than the gear. A smartphone under a blanket fort will beat a thousand-dollar-mic in a bathroom.

If you’re recording into your smartphone with wired earbuds—we do NOT recommend wireless ones for this—then you’ll just want to do a sound check to make sure that your earbuds are working properly.

We also recommend trying to record with no ear buds, just holding your smartphone a few inches away from you, and tilting the phone up the way you would if you were reading something off the screen, not with it tipped with the mic toward you, which will create a lot of those plosives I mentioned that can sometimes happen when you’re too close to the mic.

Having said that, you do want to be as close to the mic as you can be without getting plosives, because the farther you are away from your mic, the less intimate that experience of listening will be. Make sure you say some “p” words in your sound check and then listen back with headphones to see if you’re getting plosives.

Nate: Remember, for the listener, perceived distance equals psychological distance. The more distractions there are in your audio, the more distant it sounds like you are from the microphone, the more likely your listener is to be distracted – to keep psychological distance from what you’re saying.

Laura: We’ll get into this more in our interview module, but recording on a smartphone voice memo app is also a really useful way for guests to record when they don’t have access to a DAW or a podcast mic. We use the smartphone voice memo app as a standard backup no matter what our guest’s setup is, because many times we’ve found that the smartphone recording is actually better than what we could pick up through video conferencing platforms like Zoom.

Whether I end up using that smartphone audio or audio that I’ve recorded directly into a DAW for an in-person interview, part of doing the best I can with what I’ve got is cleaning up the clutter on the back end.

This can happen exclusively in a DAW, or entirely in a visual audio editing program like Descript. Over time we’ve developed a system where we do a bit of both. We start in Descript, where with a single click of a button you can remove all of the filler words, those umms and uhhs that we almost never need.

We’ll also take out noises like that computer mouse click, and tighten up pauses that aren’t serving a purpose. If I got a little too close to my mic and the plosives are noticeably bad when I listen back later, I might zoom in close on the wave form and shave off the front end of that word so it sounds a little softer.

I’ll show you in an upcoming module how to I make visual edits first in Descript, and only put on headphones to listen through my audio once I’ve removed all of the obvious clutter first.

Sometimes if my audio is really bad, like some of the tape I was working with in Lost and Found, I’ll work with the tracks in a DAW before I import it into Descript. This week’s module includes a video conversation with Katie Semro, a podcast producer who has taught me a lot about how to use noise reduction plugins and EQ to reduce echo and room noise. You’ll also hear Katie in our reflections conversation this week, where Katie talks about what she’s learned in getting great audio through voice memos.

A side note here that if you have plugins like Izotope and you’re working in a DAW, you can sometimes solve some of your backend clutter that way too. As someone who has worked in several different DAWs, I’ve been impressed with the noise reduction plugin that comes built in with Hindenburg. Izotope often has sales where you can buy their most basic package for relatively cheap.

Obviously there’s no end to how much tinkering you can do with the audio on the back end, and you absolutely can take this too far and make someone sound very unnatural. So I’m always trying to strike that balance between making the person sound like the best and most articulate version of themselves, and making sure they still sound exactly like themselves.

And the big takeaway here is that the cleaner and quieter your audio is on the front end, the less you’ll need to do on the back end. I’ve found that doing a few minutes of extra work up front to get good quality audio saves me many hours of work in my DAW, and no matter how much of a wizard I am in my DAW, I’ll never be able to make cleaned up audio sound as good as audio that was pristine in the first place.

I told you in the beginning of this module that my education in podcasting started when I started working on that podcast about US-Mexico immigration. But the deeper truth is that I’d been training myself for podcasting for many years before that, starting with taking piano lessons as a kid, that would eventually lead to voice lessons and singing in a cappella groups and choirs. I learned to pick out different parts of the music—not just the melody and harmonies, but specific instrumentation that was being used in a given song. I got a sense for when the music needed to be louder or softer, when a voice needed to blend or stand out. Through lots of practice and a lot of mistakes and careful listening, my ear became trained to the notes, so that I could tell the difference between a note that was on pitch and one that was off. Because really what I was listening for on the most basic level was did it sound good?

Great sound is a massive topic—one that we’ll keep coming back to in future weeks, because there is so much that goes into it. We hope that one of the things you take away from this module is that you never stop learning. But by developing your toolkit now, paying attention to what you think sounds good, you’ll find that your learning process is smoother and faster, and that mistakes become the very thing that helps you grow the most.

Intro to trailers:

We’ve spent a lot of time in this module talking both about the big picture of great sound and the specific things we’ve learned about how to get it over the course of three seasons and almost 200 episodes. But maybe the best way to understand that journey is to hear it. What you’re about to hear are the season trailers for season 1, 2, and 3.

As you listen, see if you can point to specific changes and improvements. What do you notice about the sound? Submit your observations for this week’s coaching call, where we’ll spend a few minutes discussing this as a group.