Episode 83: the enthusiast // Friday, June 26

Marco: What else is out there? What else could we be doing right now? Where else could we go instead of just staying here? What other opportunities are out there? 

Shelter in place has helped me by basically eliminating those questions. I don't think I could do this forever, but for a season it's good to eliminate those questions. It just allows me to live  more fully in the present with my family, knowing I don't even have the luxury right now of asking about what other thing we can do  up there. It's just here. 

Laura: Today’s installment of this series of looking at this time through the lens of the Enneagram comes to us from right here in Oakland, from someone who has been a friend, mentor, and guide in my life for many years. He’s also a lot of fun. Which is actually pretty typical for his Enneagram type. I’ll let him tell you about it.

Marco: This is Marco Ambriz. I am 40 years old. I'm married. And I'm a parent to two young children. My wife and I have been married going on 17 years and she is a third generation. California from Southern California 

My mom is from Nicaragua. My dad is from Mexico and they both immigrated to Houston, Texas when they were pre-teens. So my upbringing was mostly in Texas,  in communities of color,  in the Latino American immigrant experience. I am an Enneagram seven with a six wing. When Laura asked me what my Enneagram type is I said a hard seven . Anybody who reads about Enneagram, you might have some questions about some of the numbers.

You will not have a question about mine. When you know me, couple of disclaimers,  anything I say here, I know shouldn't stereotype. Anybody else. Who's also a seven. So I'm just going to apologize if I end up characterizing somebody who's a seven and you're like, no, that's not me. Marco Ambriz doesn't speak for me. Fine. I respect that, but I will say that as a seven for myself, I'm all about trying to keep possibilities open. 

The word that I would use to describe myself is “Improvisation.” I hate when things get narrowed down and there's no other option. I almost feel like conceptually claustrophobic when I have to pick one word or one idea, it was so hard to narrow it down to the one word improvisation. So in classic seven fashion I chose a backup word and the backup word is “spontaneity.” 

The Sevens are often described as entertainers or as extroverts or as very fun, loving, gregarious people. I really enjoy adventures. I enjoy the spontaneous. I enjoy curiosity and learning about new things and being open to possibilities. But sometimes  I have almost felt a little embarrassed  because I felt like, Oh, sure, wouldn't everyone just want to have fun. Wouldn't everyone just want to keep their options open. That just sounds lazy. Like you don't want to commit to something.

I absolutely am allergic to things like schedules, tasks, lists, follow up, deadlines. The moment somebody  starts to say, Hey, you know, we should get together sometime. And the moment somebody goes, “how about next Tuesday at 4:00 PM?” I go, “Uhhhhhhhh!” Something cringes inside of me, even though I know that's the only way you're going to actually be able to schedule a meeting with somebody in such a busy world. Something happens to me. And so I have to work through that. 

I have to push through that in order to get the joy of that relationship. That's what motivates me when I am on task, when I am following through, when I am actually punctual, which most of my friends will say is a little miracle. It's usually driven by my understanding that there's a relationship on the other side of this. That's what helps me  in navigating these things. I'm learning to own that and live into that and lean into that.

I am a pastor. I'm a person of faith. you might say, Oh yeah, typical Latino. Yeah, sure. Catholic, anybody ever heard of that? But going back to my great grandparents in Nicaragua, I heard about. Them coming to faith in Jesus, through the ministry and the work of some American missionaries that were there in Nicaragua. And only now I look back at it and I understand there's some layers to peel back on that, that I have to kind of work through because there's a lot of things that are in my opinion, from Western American white experiences that have been exported to the rest of the world.

And, we have to peel back those layers and really see that  for what it is. But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water because the people who ministered to my grandparents, had a vision of holistic community transformation. And they actually were an older couple who said, “we will die in Nicaragua.” So that is what really compelled my great grandparents and my grandparents to work with them because they realized they were committed to live and work among the people in Nicaragua and to really be in solidarity with them.

The work I'm doing right now, is at a church here in Oakland entitled First Covenant church of Oakland. I said entitled. That's kind of funny, like the name of a book or a movie or something. It's just called First Covenant Church of Oakland. It is a historically immigrant Swedish church that was founded in 1887 here in Oakland. And now you've got this really beautiful mosaic. It's a multi-generational, multi-ethnic church of people from all different backgrounds. And they've got this, Latino American immigrant kid as the lead pastor right now. And I'm really thankful for that. 

Laura: You might have missed that the lead pastor of Marco’s church isn’t just some Latino immigrant kid. It’s Marco. 

Marco: Our vision is to break down barriers, build up people and be a light for our city. And that's a tall order, but we really believe that that's what a church needs to be all about. That bleeds into everything I do in one way or another. There's a lot of action needed right now, so much has happened  in just the last few weeks this ongoing hurt of the systemic racism in our country, particularly against. African-Americans. There has always been the evils of racism and exclusion and. violence, but they have been coming up to the surface. Recently in more circles, that's just a reality.  that is going on in the midst of COVID-19 and concerns of the pandemic. Even continuing to increase , as people are trying to figure out how to open up . . . all of this brings up so much pain and so much anxiety that was already there. It adds more to it.

It's kind of a stereotype of leadership that people want leaders to quickly act and decisively speak and everyone has their idea of what is the best action and the best language that their leaders should be saying at this one moment right now. And there's definitely a lot of pressure about that. As a Latino male. with close African American friends that I work with and serve with in a church

My pressure is not even  about responding to the violence and to the hatred and racism we see. That's a no brainer for me. I think my challenge is that no matter what I'm doing, it's not enough. Like, I know it's not enough.

I'm aware of that. And there's also the challenge that no matter what I'm doing, it's going to be misinterpreted by somebody so I just have to navigate that. And that's part of leadership in general. I've been  telling my team “just know that no matter what we do in the statements that we're making we have solidarity with our black brothers and sisters, and the ways that we're seeking to continue to demonstrate reconciliation and racial justice  privately and publicly, we're always going to be doing either too much or too little, depending on who you ask.” We're seeking how to respond in a way that continues to communicate our desire for the end of systemic racism and our disdain and abhorrence of it. 

There is a paralysis, I think, that comes in, to not act because no matter what you do, it's going to not be perfect. That can be something that sometimes happens to me. It's not that I don't want to take action. I'm really quick to at least feel that there's a need to act, but I want to be mindful of what is this action going to imply two or three or four steps down the road?

That has helped me and helped my team sometimes from making some more costly mistakes. But it also, I know, has cost us at times to not act because we were concerned about, too many steps down the road, and so we have to have confidence to keep moving forward, confidence, to keep learning confidence, to be okay with the fact that we will make mistakes and be ready to keep learning, having a learning attitude. I have to keep telling my team that, and I have to keep telling myself that. 

What's keeping me going, and what does fuel me, is the actual fact that it's real people who are on the other side of those things that need to be accomplished. It's actual people's lives, actual people's bodies,  I am a non black American who has not lived a day in the life of a black person who lives every day with the ongoing reality of our history of racism, and also the daily fears and concerns of violence and marginalization. I'll never know a day of that life, but I also am in touch with my own experiences and my own times of being marginalized,  as a Latino male.

That has happened to me more times than I have even really admitted to many people. And, it's not a time for me to just focus on all of that and they kind of bleed that out on everybody, but sometimes I overthink it and I try to push away what I have experienced and what I have been feeling. Sometimes I feel overly concerned to not be mentioning that or bringing that up right now because  it could come across as you're trying to just focus on your own pain when really there's a whole lot of other pains going on in the world. And I think what I do need is  to give myself the permission to understand that all of it is very important and it matters very much to God.

It matters very much to our community towards society. And to be okay with my limitations and my limited experiences as I bring those to the table and just be aware of that.  

Last week  I just broke down in my wife's arms, remembering a story that happened several years ago. where I got pulled over and the fear that I felt  because of the heightened understanding of police violence of things that are happening, I felt an anxiety at a level that I hadn't felt before.

I had my kids in the car and it was a very friendly exchange, and the officer was actually very kind , but  I had never really fully processed that with my wife and definitely haven't even talked to my kids about it yet. They were very, very little at the time. And it's time now for conversations to start, as the kids are growing and understanding, but I just broke down in my wife's arms and just cried, like I hadn't cried in a very long time. 

I thought if this is how I felt in one experience that I can tell you about, I can only imagine my brothers and sisters who feel this every single day, every single moment. I've been seeking to listen to our African American community in our church body, and also to have spaces for people to have conversation and listen to one another.

I heard recently a pastor of a primarily white church in middle America who is also seeking to lead in this situation. I'm in a very multiethnic church. It's a different setting, but this pastor said, I feel like I'm barely just one step ahead of my congregation. So he called himself a “leading learner,” and I thought “that's what I want to be.”  I am somebody who thrives in moments when you don't know exactly what's coming and you kind of need to be flexible and be able to spontaneously move with the changing currents.

That's what I enjoy doing,  but, I want to do that with a learning posture leaning into my skills  to lead. And then also confident that I can lean on all of the people that are around me, who are skilled in so many ways that I'm not, and just be vulnerable with them. And to say, I don't know how to do this, or I don't know how to speak into this, or I have messed up here and I need your help , to address this and make this just, and make this right. 

Laura: If you’ve ever known a pastor personally, you know they’re busy people. They’ve got staff to lead, sermons to prepare, people to visit in the hospital, couples and individuals and families to counsel through hard times. Often their work extends into the evenings and weekends. This is never more true than when life is hard. Every pastor I’ve spoken to during this pandemic has said that they’re busier than ever. 

Marco: I love my job, , my job entails hearing so many perspectives of how people are feeling, and I really love being with, and working with people and listening to people, but there's some times when I just need a pocket of space where  I'm just, you know, Marco, and I, I'm able to  just, heal and be refreshed.  Sometimes when I'm feeling down, I'll read a Psalm, which are Psalms of lament and Psalms of joy. And I'll take one of those. And I might just sing with that or play my guitar with that, and let that be a place of me being able to connect with God and also with my own soul and to just vent on, on how I feel.

I do feel very loved and very appreciated by those who have embraced me and accepted me and have shown me love right now.  I actually really believe that there are more places of hope. Then one would think when you first look at them, I believe that I'm committed to that. And I live for that. 

While I am working a lot and working like crazy, my family does see some of the things that I still have to deal with. Some of the stresses.  I'm here, I'm present. that's not a question right now. And I'm thankful for that. 

Laura: Sevens are often playful, high-spirited, and versatile. They can be a lot of fun. But like every number on the Enneagram, their best feature can also be their worst. 

Sevens fear being in pain, and it’s not unusual for them to rewrite their own narratives of a negative situation to reframe it in a more positive light. Sometimes this can mean not facing reality or dealing with negative emotions. They can be scattered, undisciplined, and flighty. 

But when sevens do the emotional work of relationships and focus their dreaming, their idealism becomes vision. They become ambassadors for hope. We need their vision, energy, and adaptability in these ever-changing times.  If something has never been done before, sevens will figure out a way to do it. 

I’ve seen Marco in action at his church. He’s a great pastor. Even as a young pastor, he was thoughtful, dynamic, and generous. But because he has the humility to see his own limitations and surround himself with people who can challenge him, he’s become an inspiring, vibrant, wise leader who can tend to the joy and the pain around him. He understands that it’s just as important for him to take the time to pray a Psalm with his guitar as it is to lead a congregation or launch a new idea.

The gift of daily sanity that sevens give us is the gift of presence. They can teach us how to play, something most of us have forgotten how to do. Sevens understand better than any of us that it can be pure joy just to be alive. We need their healthy optimism, their ability to dream big dreams.

If you’re a seven yourself, give yourself the gift today of slowing down. Allow yourself to stop to notice the rather ordinary moment you’re in. Use your fascination for life to become more focused and present. This might mean that you see pain around you that can’t be reframed. Maybe it’s your own. It’s not easy, but if you listen, even that pain has something to teach you.