Episode 90: real patriotism // Saturday, July 4

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Tino: I think the real patriotism is where you're putting in the hard work to make your country better. Whether it's military service or, marching for civil rights or community service, you're actually doing something.

Laura: It’s the fourth of July, Independence Day here in the United States. So it’s only fitting that on today’s Story Saturday, I’m talking with someone who has spent a lot of time thinking about patriotism.

Tino: Hi, my name is Tino Dinh. I was born in the United States, the son of refugees from the Vietnam war who came over in 1975 and we settled in Houston. I have two boys, ages 14 and 11, and I'm happily married to my wife, who's from Korea. 

I'm a U.S. Air Force veteran. I graduated from the Air Force Academy and I served eight years of active duty as an intelligence officer, including a deployment to Iraq in 2004. 

Laura: Tino is a management consultant for government agencies. He’s the guy who looks at the government up close and connects the dots and finds the trends that most of us would miss.

Tino: I basically help federal government agencies to solve their problems, kind of the plumbing of the guts of the government. A lot of my work today is with the Department of Veterans affairs helping to prevent fraud that would target veterans’ justly earned benefits.

Laura: I originally reached out to Tino because of something I read in Sebastian Junger’s book TRIBE, which I talked about in episode 53: A Better Way. Junger said that he witnessed real community in the military that he wasn’t used to seeing in society. The soldiers’ shared experience formed a common bond that transcended race, class, and politics. I was skeptical, but also fascinated. 

In this time when systemic racism is so prevalent, it’s hard to imagine an exception. And the military is definitely not the first place I would have gone looking for that exception.  I asked Tino if being in the military was as much of an equalizing and unifying force as Junger claimed. Tino admitted that he’d had a few negative experiences over the years, things people said to him that they shouldn’t have. But overall, he thought Junger was right. 

Tino: I can only speak to my experience. I'm not a combat veteran, which that's its own unique thing.  But I will say that generally I would agree with Junger’s assessment.

People don't assume that I'm a veteran, which is annoying in itself, right? Because I think a lot of Americans have this stereotype of a big muscular white dude, and veterans come in all shapes and sizes.

But once that is out there, I think there's this instant connection, because being a veteran, you know, that 1% of American society, is almost like being a minority. And because there's a language, there's a code, there's a culture that outsiders really don't get, but we kind of get each other. We can cut across these divisions. 

The military demographically is a cross section of America. You take people from all walks of life. You know, you get farm boys from Iowa, and inner city kids from East Los Angeles and cowboys from Texas. You take these young people from all across the country, you throw them in a blender and you force them to work together towards some common goal. And then you give them an identity that transcends wherever it is that came from.  

I think in a way it's kind of a beacon for the United States. I mean, in much the way that immigration happened--it started with the army of the Department of Defense back in the late forties, early fifties. 

The unity of purpose and having a common experience is really the key there. You have all of these people, but what connects them is that shared experience, especially if they were deployed or they've been in a combat unit or they've been through the Academy. When you go through that experience together, it gives you that bond that cuts across the demographic or the ideological divide.

Laura: I have to stop here and say that this kind of thinking is just so different from what I’m used to. Talking to Tino made me realize that I had my own assumptions about the military--even though I’ve had family members serve and grew up hearing my grandparents’ war stories. Living in the Bay Area, most people I know have pretty complicated feelings about the military. There’s a lot of conversation about the horrors of war--about PTSD, or genocide, or human rights abuses. Many of the people in my city came here because they were feeling a war in another country. Some of them are pacifists. Tino says he gets a lot of that from the people he knows as well. 

Tino: Even in the Asian American community, for example, military service is almost looked down upon, which is really unfortunate. I know that military service itself is not for everybody. I mean, even with my own kids, they have to want to make that choice. I would love for them to get to experience, but I can't force that on them.

I think that, if we had the right kind of leadership, if we could find that common project to unite us, maybe that's a way to transcend our differences. There's an effort being led by General Stanley McChrystal and others, where they're pushing the idea of a mandatory national service, not mandatory conscription, but the option of National service as a way of building social cohesion, much in the same way that countries like Israel and South Korea and Germany and Taiwan have had that type of service.

That's kind of radical, but that would be  one way to do that. There's huge threats looming, like climate change and natural disasters and pandemics and the rise of populism and autocrats in the world. And under  more thoughtful leadership, maybe that could be a rallying cry for us to work together to find solutions to those common threats. But it's really about that unity of purpose.

Laura: This idea does seem radical to me--but it also doesn’t seem totally crazy. I’ve had friends who served their time in the military in Israel and Switzerland. Granted, they weren’t in combat. But generally speaking the experience seemed to give them a wiser, more mature perspective on the world. They formed friendships with people who were very different from them. It’s hard to wrap my head around the possibility that the military could heal some of our divisiveness as a nation. It’s so counter to the hyper-individualism that runs so deep in American culture. But it also doesn’t seem totally crazy. There is work to be done in our country, and the unemployment rate is high--especially among young people. If there were a way to serve that looked more like civil service and less like combat, I think I could get behind that. If there’s ever a time to question our assumptions about the world, it’s now. 

Tino: I feel like a lot of us are starting to question our fundamental assumptions and I think that's a good thing. I think we're entering into a lot of honest conversations that have been brushed under the rug for a long time. We're living amidst a great reckoning with racism and economic uncertainty--and the pandemic.

I grew up in a very, multiracial neighborhood, and serving in the military I pride myself in having friends of all races and nationalities and religious groups and even ideological affiliations. But I can't assume to know what African Americans go through or what LGBT go through. And so it's forced me to confront my assumptions and to just listen. 

I don't think I've ever recalled being so self conscious being outside and wearing a mask. This kind of resurgence of xenophobia in this country . . . I know it's always been there in American history. But the fact that you have elected officials and you have this COVID and you just kind of fanning the flames of that xenophobia is crazy to me. 

Where we live in Northern Virginia, it’s very multicultural and diverse and educated. We haven't had any ugly incidents, but you read this stuff in the news--and that's another thing, right? Some of us may be getting a distorted or inaccurate picture of life because of the way social media filter bubbles and echo chambers and all that work.

The things that are affecting all of us, regardless of race, are going to be this pandemic, and the natural world we live in, and the shape of our economy. 

Laura: What I loved so much about my conversation about Tino is how he kept blowing up my assumptions. He proudly wears his Air force uniform, but he also understands that our country has problems that we need to address. He doesn’t agree with everything our elected officials are doing and saying, but he’s deeply supportive of the people serving in the government.

Tino: people tend to vilify “the government” and it's not just one big entity. I mean, all of the things that touch your day to day life, from how fast your tax returns are getting processed, to who's controlling the aircraft that fly in the sky, to who checks the health and safety of the medicines you buy or the food that you eat. All of that is because of, you know, quote unquote “bureaucrats.”

These are dedicated civil servants. I think there's a misconception that a lot of government employees are inadequate, or they couldn't make it in the private sector. And that's just not true.

I think there's a lot of people that forgo corporate life in order to do work that they think is impactful, and the health and safety and security of the United States rests on these public servants doing their jobs. There's a vast machinery of government, and it's all designed to mitigate and deal with the risks out there, and that life functions for the average American,

The government hires people like me to set things up and make sure the machinery works, but it's the elected officials who are actually deriving the policy and making the key decisions. Regardless of what political party is in charge, those public servants have to carry on and do their job. 

The most visible example is Dr. Fauci, but there's many other people like him: research scientists,  physicians, people working on vaccine treatments--all those people right there, they're vital to our functioning as a society. These are the people that deserve a lot more appreciation from the public. And it really hurts when elected officials are bashing these people. They work for the elected officials--the executive branch--and so when the leadership and the president undermine or denigrate the work of the people that are keeping us safe, it's astounding to me.

This sounds kind of like Civics 101, but I feel like the average citizen does not appreciate how vital it is to have a competently administered government. A government that functions and runs.

So I think the best thing that people can do is be informed about how your government works, and elect smart public officials to set the right policies, and be informed and respect evidence and science. That's, the most basic thing we can do.

Laura: Tino has seen the inner workings of our government up close. He understands it better than most of us do. I asked him if he thought there was anything hopeful about our current situation as a country.

Tino: There's potential promise here, right? There's  a chance  we could rebuild better and stronger if we could focus our collective resources and attention towards, investing in things like public health infrastructure and resiliency, and income stability, to shore ourselves and our society up so that the next time this happens--and it's definitely going to happen again--we'll be a lot better prepared. That's my optimistic take on things. 

I don't want to be gloom and doom, but my pessimistic take on this is that the political and social polarization . . . it's getting in the way of us doing something like that. And not only will it leave us ill prepared for the next crisis, whether it's a pandemic or a natural disaster or social strife or an economic downturn, our lack of unity will make things worse.

Laura: This seems to be the heart of every conversation I’ve had during this pandemic. People of all politics seem to agree that our division is a problem. Tino began this episode talking about patriotism, and so I wanted to return to that idea, because I think his version of patriotism might be one that could unite us.

Tino: I definitely consider myself patriotic.

I think that real patriotism is where you're putting the hard work to make your country better. Whether it's military service or, marching for civil rights or community service, you know, you're actually doing something.

Laura: Back in 1975, Tino’s parents almost died fleeing Saigon. He says there were Communist bullets at their heels when they ran. Tino’s parents taught him that being here in the United States was a gift. Tino says that every day, he’s grateful that this country took in his parents and hundreds of thousands of other Southeast Asian refugees. He doesn’t take his patriotism lightly.

If we go back far enough, all of us have our complicated reasons for being here. Tino is patriotic, but he also acknowledges that he’s the product of American foreign policy. He’s here because of the Vietnam War. His wife is here because of the Korean War. And they’re just as American as any of us--maybe more so, because Tino has worked hard for his patriotism. He’s committed most of his adult life to serving our military.

Tino: I'm a student of history. I understand colonialism. I understand all the terrible things that have happened that the United States government has done on its path towards becoming the richest strongest country in the world. 

You can't deny the bad things that have happened, but there are  good things that are happen too. So I think, you know, you'd have to have like an objective appreciation of history to be that true patriot. And Patriot is not the same as a nationalist , because  what unites us is, these values, right?

You know, you're a Caucasian woman,  I'm an Asian guy , but we're Americans.  I have relatives that have been in generations and France. And, they'll never be considered French in a way that I'm considered an American and, for crazy reasons over the last few years, people seem to doubt that.

And I'm hoping that we can  bring that back again.  That's a real great hope that I have  that  maybe we can, create that path. What's the unity for the rest of the country. I would like to think. 

That's a real great hope that I have  that  maybe we can, create that path. What's the unity for the rest of the country. I think patriotism should be  an inclusive term. For me, patriotism is about, adhering to, and advocating the values of this country and realizing that we're always striving towards a more perfect union. 

I read this term the other day, plastic patriotism.  I think a lot of self-proclaimed conservatives have claimed a monopoly on patriotism and they think patriotism means that you blast the Greenwood and you have a yellow ribbon on your bumper and your dressed head to toe in the flag.

And, you won't kneel for the Anthem and you'll kind of loud and proud America lover leave it. And I think that version of quote unquote patriotism, is really superficial and kind of cheap. 

There’s nothing wrong with fireworks and hot dogs and,  enjoying the summer, or some adaptation of that in COVID times. but  at least reflecting on the fact  that, America is like this, experiments and it's never been a guarantee. It's always taken conscious efforts, to make it better. 

We're really unique in the world in that way.  And it's not just because we're the big bully on the block and we have all this money that we can throw around. I think the framework to think about it is, with any country or even a person, to get people, to like you and do what you want, you can coerce them. You can bribe them or you can inspire them.

With America, what makes us great is that ability to inspire. And I hope that, post-2020,  we can  get to an America that inspires instead of an America that is the bully.

I think we just, need spaces where. We can just talk to each other and listen to each other and find a way forward and  work the problem, right? Like they say, in Apollo 13, instead of shouting at each other.

Tino told me that when he sees the rise of xenophobia and isolationism in this country, and when we refuse to give asylum to refugees, or to use our strength to protect the oppressed around the world, it strikes a nerve. Lately even among some of his Air Force friends, there have been some hard-to-swallow Facebook feeds.

Even with these common bonds, common experiences, I'm seeing the fraction, I mean, tremendously diverse, political beliefs. and, and I'm starting to see those, those kind of cracks emerge. And it's kind of been disappointing, you know, because these are the people that I work with. I grew up with and I thought we kind of had the same common value system. And to see, you know, some of the things that they're posting or it's kind of like, do you really believe that? Like, is that this whole time, you know, is that what you thought of me?

To fight against that cynicism, can we go back to that common bond, those common values? This  backlash, of certain people or certain belief systems, really kind of gets in the way of us moving on as a society.

We could go back into our tribes and start to tear each other apart, or  we could use this as an opportunity to really rethink and redesign and emerge in a much smarter way.

What I'm really impressed by with this millennial generation, is that they're really motivated by the sense of mission and social justice and the idealism and wanting to do the right thing, maybe in a way like that, that sixties generation was, but they're just a lot  smarter and less hedonistic about it. they're  willing to endure hardships and sacrifice themselves for a greater good, And, that gives me a lot of hope,

Laura: Tino’s patriotism is the kind I can get behind. I didn’t grow up thinking that patriotism was something I had to work for. I thought it was like sports team loyalties, just an accident of geography. But I don’t think that anymore. 

On this Independence Day, the daily gift of sanity I’m receiving form Tino is that real patriotism isn’t plastic. It’s not about the music we listen to or whether or not we have the flag hanging from our front porch. It’s not even about who we vote for. It’s about being committed to doing the hard work required to make this country what it could be. It’s about figuring out how to have conversations with each other so we can do that work together.

Tino told me that his hope and prayer is that we’ll snap out of this fog we’re in. That we’ll embrace the "real America" not as some fictitious dream of the past, but of place where generosity, compassion, and benevolence can emerge once again. E Plurubus Unum.

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Anthony & Michelle DeVito, you have always made us feel safe to be ourselves. Whether it’s been teaching and caring for our kids, conversations about life purpose over the San Mateo bridge, or helping us plan a life in Mexico, you’ve cared for us and supported us so well.

Lucy French, there are precious few who can be truly helpful in a mother’s darkest hour of night and pain, and you have that gift. Thank you for holding me and telling me it was going to be okay when I was terrified and disgusting. Thank you for blessing us twice over with your beautiful spirit and calming presence. 

Roxane Beth Johnson,thank you for being the safest place I know of to share my newborn sentences and paragraphs, and for drawing me deeper creativity, faith, and friendship. God did a marvelous thing when he created you.